I know that

Chatterbox: Blab About Books

Harry Potter and The Deathly Hallows
I know that...

I know that there are quite a few threads devoted to Harry Potter already, but this one is specifically for the last one! (not that we have to stay on topic.) What did everybuggy think? I thought it was pretty good except that the wandering around with the tent was pretty boring and felt like JKR was grasping for something to fill the pages. I LOVED Snape's story, though. :( And in a weird way I liked how JKR took away everything cliché about Dumbledore and made him more human. What about the rest of you?

P.S. This is my Blab about Books challenge. Three more to go!

submitted by Lena G, age 11
(February 26, 2009 - 12:13 pm)

It's more of a logic issue than anything else, really, as I was resigned to the good guys winning in the end. 

Y'see, from fifth book onwards I was kind of hoping Harry would die in the process of killing Voldy. I didn't see any way for him to survive that kind of a fight (it was the Dumbly vs. Voldy duel that did it for me, incidentally, not the prophecy). I thought maybe JKR would have Voldy and Harry kill each other at the same time or something like that. I didn't think she would be one of those authors who makes use of a deus ex machina *coughsmeyercough* to save her characters in the end.

What I did not expect was for JKR to kill Harry before he managed to kill Voldy. My immediate thought process after having read that Harry had died was that someone else - Ron, anyone? - would step in to save the day and revenge his friend.

But having Harry come back made no sense at all. Sure, Voldy killed a bit of his own soul along with Harry. But both the piece of soul and Harry were dead. That was made absolutely clear. Therefore I don't see how Harry could have come back to life if Voldy's piece of soul couldn't. JKR might have been trying to set this up a little earlier in the book when Hermione was talking about Horcruxes - a soul survives if a body dies, but a piece of soul is obliterated when its vessel (the Horcrux) is destroyed. However, if that is so then why did the piece of soul not immediately vanish when Harry was killed? Even if he didn't really die, the piece of Voldy's soul was ripped from its vessel - in this case, Harry. Therefore, when Harry was talking to Dumbledore he should not have been able to see Voldy's piece of soul (the crying baby thing), because, according to what Hermione said about Horcruxes, it would simply have ceased to exist when Harry, its vessel, was killed.

So logically if Harry were both able to see the piece of Voldy's soul and come back to life, the Horcrux was still intact when Voldy's curse rebounded a second time. If this were the case, though, Voldy wouldn't have died, because he would still have had one Horcrux left. But Voldy died, just dead.

And yes, before you ask, I have way too much time on my hands to nitpick with. *nodnod* 

submitted by TNÖ, age 15, Deep Space
(March 5, 2009 - 8:20 pm)

That's not exactly nitpicking. Once you put it out that way, it doesn't make that much sense. And my question is, if Voldemort - *worries that it is still Taboo* *looks around for a dead Dark Wizard to come flying at her* *doesn't see any* *relaxes* - took Harry's blood with his mother's protection, why didn't that keep him safe? TNÖ, you probably know the answer to that. You know so much about Harry Potter that I sometimes wonder if you're JKR's daughter. ;) Compared to my knowledge... *sulks at her ignorance of Harry Potter* *realizes that she is putting self down like she told BellaTrix not to*

submitted by Lena G, age 11
(March 6, 2009 - 12:19 pm)

I don't know about the blood thing. Possibly it didn't work because the curse was originally cast by Voldemort himself. We have seen no evidence to suggest that the protective force in Harry's blood could stop him from hurting himself - for example if he shot sectumsempra off a mirror, we don't know if his mother's protection would keep the curse from cutting him. If we assume that curses cast by the person being protected can pass through or somehow get around the protection, then it makes sense that Voldemort was killed by the killing curse because it was his own curse.

Alternatively it might be that the protection didn't work because Voldemort shared Harry's blood. This is also a possible explanation for Harry's ability too come back to life. Voldemort's inability to properly kill Harry could indicate that spells or curses are rendered inoperable or less effective if a bond such as identical blood or identical protective forces are in place. Conversely, the protection would be diluted between the two people sharing it; just as Voldemort could touch Harry after gaining Harry's mother's protection, perhaps curses such as Avada Kedavra would be able to penetrate the protection. To me this seems the more likely explanation, but it's shaky enough that it doesn't cover the Harry-returns-to-life thing.

And no, I'm not JKR's daughter, I just like to catch plot holes and whatnot. It'd be cool if I were, though, she seems like a really nice sort of person from what I've seen in interviews and the amount of money she's donated to charity. 

submitted by TNÖ, age 15, Deep Space
(March 6, 2009 - 6:50 pm)

*light bulb comes on over head* Oh, now I know why my sister suddenly swiped DH out of my room and started reading it... (not that I mind)

submitted by Falmiriel
(March 11, 2009 - 7:00 pm)

I need to go read it again, but I just sort of figured that since Harry was the one that Voldemort chose to be the one that would have the power to kill him (according to Dumbledore, Voldy chose Harry, remember?), then it just sort of became predestined that Harry would kill Voldy and nothing could change that. So, when Voldy tried to kill Harry, it didn't work like it should have.

Or, someone-up-there decided to give Harry a "second chance." No type of deity is ever referred to in the books, but it's a pretty good way to explain what happened.

Or maybe Harry's mother's protection was still working. Yes, Voldemort took some of it, but Harry still had it at least to some extent, right? I mean, it didn't keep Voldy from killing Harry, but maybe it kept Harry from having to stay dead. 

submitted by Falmiriel, age 16
(March 11, 2009 - 6:55 pm)

But, according to Dumbledore, prophecies are not set in stone. Heck, most prophecies occur because the person overhears them and tries to avoid the prophecy. Also, it never stated that Harry would kill Voldy - just that one would kill the other. Ambiguity!

Someone-up-there? Deus ex machina (literally), anyone?

The protection was still working but it was working for both Voldy and Harry. Imagine... A bubble. You can't penetrate it from the outside, but if you can get in you can attack anyone who's also inside the bubble with you. Voldy would still have been able to kill Harry, except that Harry did what his mother did - sacrificed himself. This caused a second "bubble" to be thrown up around him but not Voldy at the last minute. I think this is why he could come back.

That's all very well and good. The matter of the Horcrux is what throws the wrench in the works, however. As I've said before, the protection around Harry - if indeed it is like my bubble explanation - would also have inadvertently protected the bit of Voldy's soul inside Harry - and therefore in the bubble of protection as well. We know that possession is still effected by the protection because the protection was activated when Voldy tried to posess Harry at the end of book 5. We also know that the Horcrux continued to survive because it was still visible to Harry and Dumbledore after Harry died. Hermione earlier on had mentioned that a bit of soul is obliterated - destroyed - when its vessel is destroyed. This would mean that the baby thing would not have existed if the Horcrux was truly gone.

I don't have a problem with Harry coming back - I have a problem with Voldy's soul not coming back with him.

Meh, Voldy and Bella live on in my fanfiction anyway. 

submitted by TNÖ, age 15, Deep Space
(March 11, 2009 - 11:16 pm)

When you say it that way, it sounds very logical... but I don't think I could have survived if Harry died. That would just be too sad, for Ginny and Ron and Hermione and Neville and Hagrid and the Weasleys and everyone else in the world with half a brain. *nod*

I still don't get your Bellatrix/Voldy, thing, TNO (umlaut!!!!), but I'll admit that I do occasionally like the bad guys, if they're really well done (unlike Capricorn in Inkheart- puh-leese, he was pathetic. Sorry, had to say that.).

All in all, though, I think JKR did a fantastic job of tying up all the strings. I never would have thought of how to bring Harry back from the half-dead- then again I would probably never have semi-killed him either.

submitted by Mary W., age 11, Bordentown, NJ
(March 13, 2009 - 7:09 pm)

I went back and read that part of DH. Still not entirely clear on what happened, but at least Dumbledore explains it in that scene. It's Harry's mother's protection somehow, still acting, and the fact that since Voldy had taken some of it, he had tied Harry to life while he was alive. Dumby explains it much better than I can.

And, actually, I don't believe that the crying-baby-thing was the Horcrux, since as Hermione explains to Ron, a Horcrux cannot exist independently of its container. I think it was Voldemort's soul. If you remember, Voldy fell over and presumably passed out briefly right after he tried to kill Harry, so he could have gone to the same weird place with Harry.

Incidentally, do you remember what Voldemort looked like right before getting his body back in GoF? Yep - a disgusting baby-looking thing. Coincidence? 

submitted by Falmiriel
(March 15, 2009 - 3:26 pm)

Voldy's Horcruxes = Voldy's soul. :)

Re: Harry not dead - it was the same function as Harry's mother's protection, but it was created when Harry died, not when Harry's mother died:

"'But I should have died - I didn't defend myself! I meant to let him kill me!'

'And that,' said Dumbledore, ;will, I think, have made all the difference.'"

Implying that Harry had done the same thing his mother had done, and accidentally saved himself. That combined with the sharing of his mother's protection with Voldy to keep him alive, despite the fact that the killing curse should have destroyed him.

Also, given that Harry was still alive partially because his life was tethered to Voldy's, then Voldy should still have been alive because his life was tethered to Harry's (they still shared blood).

Voldy's soul/Horcrux/the baby thing:

I was given to understand that it was the Horcrux, mainly from this passage here:

"'So the part of his soul that was in me... ...has it gone?'

'Oh yes!' said Dumbledore. 'Yes, he destroyed it. Your soul is whole, and completely your own, Harry.'

'But then...'

Harry glanced over his shoulder to where teh small, maimed creature trembled under the chair.

'What is that, Professor?'

'Something that is beyond either of our help.'"

And here:

"'You were the seventh Horcrux, Harry, the Horcrux he never intended to make...'"

What I get from that is that the baby-thing wasn't Voldy himself - or at least, not the bit of his soul that he still had inside of him - but the Horcrux that had been inside Harry. Which brings me back to my previous posts.

 

Meh. I search obsessively for loopholes that will enable my favorite characters to not really be dead. Unfortunately there isn't one for Bellatrix, except that we never actually see that she is dead - who says Molly's curse was a killer? That argument is weak, of course. Very weak.

submitted by TNÖ, age 15, Deep Space
(March 16, 2009 - 12:08 am)

Um, what exactly is it with you and Bellatrix?

submitted by Lena G, age 11
(March 17, 2009 - 6:37 pm)

Well, after Snape she was my favourite character. *shrug*

 

On a completely unrelated note, I GIVE UP! I am sick and tired of American spelling! GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! *head explodes*

submitted by TNÖ, age 15, Deep Space
(March 17, 2009 - 10:31 pm)

So, um, does that mean you live in England? You don't have to answer, but I don't get it.

submitted by Lena G, age 11
(March 18, 2009 - 3:20 pm)

Ha! I wish. But no. I just have an automatic preference for British spelling - "colour" instead of "color" and "favourite" instead of "favorite", and "grey" rather than "gray". And it was driving me nuts because the computer doesn't think "favourite" is spelled correctly.

submitted by TNÖ, age 15, Deep Space
(March 18, 2009 - 6:09 pm)

I love the English spelling of the word 'centre.'

submitted by Lena G, age 11
(March 19, 2009 - 7:21 am)

I LOVE it!!!! I havn't read it in a while, so I have to read it again. But I still know that I love it. P.S. I have all the Harry Potter books!!!!!

submitted by Meadow, age 11, IL
(March 17, 2009 - 8:10 am)