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The Ultimate War: KOTLC elves V.S LOTR elves
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We have here the ULTIMATE BATTLE!!! What is better Keeper of the Lost Cities elves, or *drumroll Please* Lord of the Rings elves. May the greatest elf WINNNNNNNN!

submitted by Peanutbutter, age ??????????, ThePantry
(February 15, 2022 - 6:04 pm)

Most definitely the Elf Cookies Keefe likes so much!

submitted by KOTLC elves, for the win
(February 15, 2022 - 9:16 pm)
submitted by TOP
(February 16, 2022 - 2:38 pm)

Ok ok ok SO here's my opinion:

I would like to open with the fact that I am a big fan of LotR and KotLC. Both elves are interesting but I think that there is one clear winner here: LotR Elves. Here's why:

- Ok so the blue eyes in KotLC? I don't like it. I know it was to create emphasis on Sophie's brown eyes but saying that they're all so pretty and perfect and they all have blue eyes throws me off, because of what it implies. Also, people of color with blue eyes? No thanks. 

- The KotLC matchmaking system? Don't Like it. I get that you need to know who you're related to and stuff but it's just way to controlling and not to mention heteronormative, so yeah, I don't like it. 

- Ok, the abilities are pretty cool, but overall KotLC elves just feel like,,, too much, y'know? Like Shannon Messenger went 'here are my elves! they're all perfect and beautiful and rich and live in palaces and have incredible abilities and can move things with their minds!' It feels unrealistic.

- On the other hand, LotR elves are very cool. Idk if you've ever read the Silmarillion, but in there Tolkien goes so in depth about their history and it's very intresting. I know if you only watch/read the Hobbit/LotR the elves might seem boring and mystical but I promise they have a lot more depth 

-  That's the main thing, I think. KotLC elves and everything about them sounds like i could come up with it all in a day, while LotR elves literally have thousands of years of history, many languages (two of which are actually speakable), dozens of different kinds, and they just feel more real.

- Last thing, I just KNOW someone's gonna come at me with the 'but all of Tolkien's elves are white and the KotlC elves aren't!' which is NOT true. Yes, the movies made the elves all white but those are the movies, not the books, and in the books Tolkien never specifies that all elves are white. In fact, Tolkien often forgoes mentioning a characters appearance at all, so that leaves it up for interpretation. 

Im open to debating anyone on this :))) 

submitted by Silver Crystal , age Infinity, Milky way
(February 17, 2022 - 7:43 am)

Yessss I literally totally and completely agree with everything you just said.

I don't like either book all that much, although I must admit LotR is pretty good. Sure, if it came down to it and you convinced a 'nonviolent' KOTLC elf to fight, depending on the KOTLC elf's power (I'd say maybe 50% of the powers would let the KOTLC elf win) it might win, but that doesn't make it better. LotR elves are better!

~Jay

submitted by Chaser & Jay, :D
(March 7, 2023 - 12:44 pm)

heyyyyy

so I totally agree with you (and apparently pretty much everyone else on this thread) that LOTR elves are way better, but, i wanted to add I believe the LOTR elves are all white in the book, since it takes place in a reimagined version of medeival England, and it's pretty isolated from whatever other continents could exist, plus I remember reading in the second book a description of warriors from Africa coming to Middle-Earth, as well as some animals native to Africa, and if I remember right the Hobbits were observing their darker skin as something unusual, and something they hadn't really seen before.  So the lack of diversity is not ideal, but i still think LOTR elves are better because of how well developed they are.

submitted by Tsuki the Skywolf
(March 7, 2023 - 1:07 pm)

It's true that the LotR elves are pale-skinned mostly, but skin color doesn't change identity, so I think it doesn't really matter. Also, the KOTLC elves are even more monotonous in their appearance; they're all supposed to have blue eyes, except Sophie. :/

submitted by Poinsettia
(March 7, 2023 - 9:43 pm)

@Silver, I totally agree on all of your points! Though. I have not actually read KotLC so I can't fairly enter in this debate.

I do think the "long straight hair and tall, slim figures" aspect of LotR elves is Eurocentric, though I haven't actually read any of the books in a while so that might just be me projecting from the movies. @Tsuki, I'd say that it's possible for Brown people to exist in a medieval-Europe setting, since they were there; I think it is more likely that Tolkein intended them to be white (I could go into a whole rant about how racist those books are in lieu the descriptions of orcs but I don't have time), but I love imagining various LotR characters as people of color because no one says you can't. :)

submitted by Lupine, Rivendell
(March 14, 2023 - 9:22 pm)

I love KotLC, but I totally agree with everything you just said. it does feel like the elves from KotLC are kinda something I could easily create...

But KotLC is sentimental to me since I've read it for years, ever since the fourth book came out. So I do feel a little sorry for those elves, even though I know they aren't real. 

 

submitted by ~Amarillis~, age 12 eons, Hills of Smog
(March 8, 2023 - 9:05 am)

Honestly, both are awesome, and both have their strengths and flaws, but the KOTLC elvin abilities are much stronger and more varied than the LOTR elvin abilites. How would you fight an Inflictor, especially considering they're so rare and understudied? Also, if you don't know what the ability of the elf you are fighting is, it's a lot harder to defend against them. However, there are some abilities that have no combat use whatsoever, such as empaths, telepaths, and polyglots. The best they can do is find out why their opponent is fighting them, and unless this situation is a sappy Disney movie, that isn't going to do much. So I'd say it depends on the elf, especially considering most KOTLC elves are pacifists. But with say, an Inflictor or Mesmer vs a LOTR elf, the LOTR elf doesn't stand much of a chance.

submitted by Suneater, age Old enough, she/they
(February 18, 2022 - 3:15 pm)

I may be biased because I don't love KotLC, but I think LotR elves are way better. 

The thing about Tolkien's elves that makes them so special is their inhuman-ness.  They are ethreal, mysterious creaures with their own languages, history, and world outside of the world of the other races of Middle-Earth.  They are set apart in a way that isn't just because of magical abitilies, and they can seem more like angels or fairies than humans.  KotLC's elves aren't like this, though.  How are they different from humans exept for the fact that they have magical powers and live longer?  To put it simply, they are really just pretty, magical humans.  They have none of the mysterious beauty that Tolkien's elves have.  But that's just my opinion!

submitted by Sterling, age unknown, The Misty Mountains
(February 23, 2022 - 5:34 pm)

OH BEAUTIFUL I LOVE THIS THREAD AI ELBERETH YES

They're both cool, but absolutely Middle Earth elves. My cousins and I have had this debate and the recurring argument is 'tHeY'rE cOoLEr' which is definitely true but there's a lot more.
KotLC elves are definitely overpowered. Not just the abilities, AND skills that all of them have, but then they're supposed to be super smart AND really pretty? That last one feels especially unrealistic with all the diversity - and the diversity is a good thing, but I feel like if you combine that much there not all going to be 'pretty'? Like beauty is a varied thing and there's no way genetics can do it. Sorry if any of that sounded rude, I'm not sure how to put it...
But they're still kind of wimpy?? They're like... superpowered hobbits. NOT implying that hobbits are wimpy, I mean hobbits in the other races of Middle Earth's stereotype of them.
And then LotR elves have SO much more depth and history not to mention two languages of their own. 
In a fight... Well. I'm not sure how much of this is canon/fanon/headcanon but Middle Earth elves have mind powers, like Galadriel 'transmitting' to the Fellowship (and Elrond and Gandalf at other points in the movies, which I feel like isn't too far off from Tolkien) and I'm pretty sure at least some of them have impressive mental defenses. In my universe at least, Sophie would have a LOT of trouble getting into Elrond's mind, if she could do it at all. Even without that, Inflictors and Mesmers are both pretty rare, and unless they can do it really fast, what are they going to do about an arrow going towards their chest? Actually though... LOTR elves can die of sadness so now I'm wondering what an Inflictor could do...
Sorry - I sound very definite here, obviously all of this is just my opinion. 
submitted by MoonKitten, Lasgalen
(February 25, 2022 - 11:44 am)

Okay I'm sorry, but I just have to say LOTR. I LOVE Keeper of the Lost Cities SO much. It is once of my favorites! But, I just don't like the elves-are-beautiful-and-thin dynamic. I mean, that's suggesting that beautiful = thin. :( which isn't true. we are all beautiful!

 

Next, LOTR is SO well-developed. I feel like Tolkein just went so deep into every species and spent a lot of time developing them. It's like...it's like you're an outsider, but you feel for a moment as if you're part of the elves' clans. You just understand.

 

It's just my opinion, of course. 

submitted by Shining Star, age 13 eons, The Milky Way
(March 1, 2022 - 5:30 pm)

So, I think that all the KOTLC elves would just make the goblins fight for them. Maybe the elves would fight too. If the Keeper elves gave some Pryorkinetiks, Hydrokinetics, Inflictors, Mesmers, and Enhancers they would win, but Keeper elves are very nonviolent so I think it's unlikely they would win. Also, there are many more LOTR elves than there are Keeper elves (or goblins fighting for them). But Keeper  elves have great tech like meddlers. I think it would be a tie and they would kill each other.

submitted by Cam, age 10, Here
(July 27, 2022 - 12:12 pm)

Definitely LotR elves! KOTLC elves are just like modern people with a lot of very unrealistic magic powers - they don't even speak differently, they don't seem too original, they're rather helpless without Sophie. Tolkien's elves, on the other hand, are interesting - they really seem like magical creatures, so they're more fun to read about.

submitted by Poinsettia
(March 5, 2023 - 4:03 pm)
submitted by Poinsettia, topping everything
(March 6, 2023 - 9:19 pm)