Well, I'm sure

Chatterbox: Blab About Books

The Silmarillion
Well, I'm sure...

Well, I'm sure it's very unlikely, but... might there be, perhaps, even among the admins, a few Silmarillion readers here? It's a very difficult book and I wouldn't expect too many of you to have even heard of it but, eh, worth a shot. If you have though, who's your favorite character? Favorite Valar? Elves, Dwarves, or Men?

For me it's the Eldar. Dwarves and the Edain are just to volatile. 

submitted by Miriam Hawke, age counting.., Nargothrond
(March 23, 2024 - 2:05 pm)

Hello!!!! It's taken three years, but I've finally found another Silm fan on here! I read it a couple of years ago and loved it so much (even though it took me a while to get through it haha). My favorite characters are Maedhros and Maglor. Idk for some reason I've always really liked tragic, doomed characters and they certainly are. Favorite Valar.... honestly, I don't know. I didn't really like the Valar all that much? But if I had to choose I would say maybe Yavanna or Ulmo. As for Elves, Dwarves, or Men I'm going to have to go with Men. Like I said before, I love a good tragic, doomed story and aren't all mortals doomed to die the second they're born? As for the Eldar, given that the entire book is quite literally about them slaughtering each other over some magic rocks and other sometimes petty things, I think it's fair to say that they're perhaps the most volatile out of the three. 

What about you? What's your favorite character? Valar? Bonus questions: since there are so many variations, who do you consider the father of Gil-Galad? Who was the best king of the Noldor?

submitted by Silver Crystal, age Infinity, Milky Way
(March 24, 2024 - 10:26 am)

AAA I can't believe I found another reader! Yippee!!

I love Maedhros and Maglor so much too! I really wish we knew what happened to Maglor. I headcanon that Maglor thought that Elrond had forgotten about him, but when he left for Valinor, he found him and took him over the sea with him.  Seems like a better ending for both of them.

My other favorite characters would be Finrod (he's just so amazing) Fingolfin (I cried at his death) and Thingol (I also cried at his death--he's the reason I don't like dwarves).

I dunno, elves are just so wonderfully elegant and yet also so petty, and some of them remind me a ton of myself  (looking at you, Feanor). I kinda lost all liking for humans in the Silm after the Children of Hurin--it's hard to like a character who's cursed and won't stop moping about it.

My favorite Valar would probably be Tulkas, but on this re-read I'm liking Ulmo a lot. It's hard to decide... They're all very unique and interesting to read about.

ohhh good question! My copy of the Silm says it's Fingon, but I dunno about that. I'm not sure. Maybe on this re-read I'll think about it a little more in-depth. As for best king of the Noldor, it's a tie between Fingolfin and Finrod. Both of them were just so neat and cool.

Alright, some other bonus questions: do you think the Arkenstone might be a Silmaril? And the ultimate question... did Feanor do nothing wrong??? 

submitted by Miriam, age countless, City of Gondolin
(March 25, 2024 - 10:21 am)

Sameee, I'm always wondering what Maglor is up to during the events of the Hobbit and the Lord of the Rings. There's a cool theory that Lindir (I think that's his name?), the musician at Rivendell is actually Maglor, although it's probably not true. I hope that he and Elrond got to see each other before they sailed, or at least in Valinor.

I like Finrod too! Although I would say that Fingolfin had a bigger impact on me. I never really liked Thingol, idk he just always seemed very pretentious and closed minded, although I didn't hate him or anything. I'm a big Fingon fan, too. I used to really dislike Elwing before coming around to the realization that I was overhating on her for some reason.

Yeah, the elves are very interesting to read about in the Silm especially, they feel very tonally different than the elves in the LoTR and the Hobbit. I think humans as well changed throughout Tolkien's work, and some of my favorite Tolkien characters are humans (Aragorn, Eowyn, etc). I didn't really like Hurin's whole story, but, I mean, the guy had it pretty rough, so I would probably be moping a lot too. I personally don't really like the Vanyar out of all the elves... like what were you doing during the majority of the book?? Nothing????

I'm of the opinion that Gil-Galad was not, in fact, Fingon's child, at least biologically. He never has a named wife, so it seems like a detail that Tolkien meant to change before he published it. Another version has him down as the son of Orodreth, which I personally find more believable (plus, blonde Gil-Galad! For some reason he seems like such a blonde to me). Some theories I've seen are: 1) Fingon's child by adoption, maybe the child of one of his dead siblings, 2) Male presenting Finduilas, taking up the mantle of King to lead the leaderless people (we only hear of Gil-Galad after she supposedly dies; plus under the Orodreth theory they’d be siblings), 3) A random guy that was chosen because there was no one else to be king and the Noldor needed leadership. I think it’s a fascinating plot hole in the legendarium. My pick for best king of the Noldor would probably also be Fingolfin. 

I LOVE the theory that the Arkenstone might be a Silmaril! It makes so much sense (in some ways) and also makes the events of the Hobbit more interesting. As for the question about whether Feanor did anything wrong… my answer would be yes. Now, was he justified in being angry at the Valar? I would say so. But he lost his moral high ground the moment he swore the Oath, and even worse, made all of his sons swear the Oath. Because no matter how justified his wrath was, that made no excuse to begin kinslaying, especially when he was the one who instigated the fighting. In the words of Jake Peralta from Brooklyn 99, “Cool motive, still murder.” By also forcing his sons to take this oath, he entered them into a life of eternal suffering, murder, and death, although he surely didn’t know the extent of his actions as he took the Oath. Idk, just the amount of suffering that was caused by the Silmarils via the Feanorian Oath™ makes him significantly morally corrupt, especially when he demonstrated very little empathy for others around him and seemed to care more about his own ego than his family. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t dislike him as a character (Maedhros and Maglor are my favorites even though they also did the whole kinslaying thing), but I think it’s important to note his character flaws.

How do you feel about Tokien’s other works, like Lord of the Rings and the Hobbit? Do you like the movies? I tried to watch Rings of Power when it came out but could not get through it because it was so bad. Thank goodness the Tolkien estate is so crazy about the movie rights to the Silmarillion and won’t sell them to anyone, because honestly it would make an awful movie or TV show- it’s just not built like that. Once someone I was talking with said that if the Silm were to ever get an on screen adaptation the only style that would be able to fully capture it wouldn’t be a movie or live action TV series but a 100+ episode anime series, and honestly that makes sense. I don’t even watch anime, but I would if it was a full length well-done Silm adaption. Plus I feel like anime style animation would reallyyy suit the story.

What’s one aspect of the Silm that you really wish that had been elaborated on more? For me it’s the relationship between Maedhros, Maglor, Elrond, and Elros, which has always fascinated me. (Also sorry this got really long whoops)

submitted by Silver Crystal, age Infinity, Milky Way
(March 25, 2024 - 9:37 pm)

I just really like Thingol, he seems like the conservative old guy of the entire book and I love it. Him and Melian are my favorite canon ship because of how well they just fit together without an over-extrapolation of their relationship.

Yeah, the Vanyar are just... eh. I'd be interested to see some of Tolkien's unpublished writings on them, because who knows, they might have actually been up to stuff while the Feanorians were off looking for their shiny rocks. Finarfin would have also been really interesting to hear more about. I have a headcanon (yes I have a lot of headcanons) that as a child, nobody wanted to hang out with Finarfin because he was kind of boring and petty, so that most of the time he was left alone just to read and stuff, making him in the end a wise and incredibly intelligent character who has zero social skills.

I would definitely want to know Tolkien's original idea for Gil-Galad's parentage. I never really took too much thought into him, but now that I can see how many people are trying to figure it out, maybe I'll look a little deeper this re-read and come up with a few of my own theories.

As for my personal opinions on Feanor... I'm pretty conflicted. The high-elf side of my personality absolutely has an extreme disliking for him, whereas the wood-elf side of me absolutely LOVES his chaotic and rash personality. On one hand, he killed a bunch of Teleri (my personal favorite sect of the Eldar), swore a somewhat reckless oath, and denied the sight of the Silmarils for a very petty and paranoid reason. But on the other hand... nothing except for the fact that he very much reminds me of my own personality. (Also, I am absolutely wheezing at your use of the TM symbol, I'm gonna start doing that now)

For his other works, I LOVE the Hobbit! It's so whimsical and the character-building is amazing. But with the LotR, I always start reading the first book and never get past Tom Bombadil. He's an amazing character, but he's so out-of-place amongst the somewhat mature and grim story around him. I would prefer him a lot more if he were in, say, the Hobbit. The movies... I'm not sure, I'm conflicted. I love the Hobbit movies, but I'm really annoyed by Peter Jackson adding in so many characters that don't belong there. Wait, scratch that, I'm really annoyed with him adding in so many characters that don't even exist. Looking at you, Tauriel. As for Rings of Power, I would have to re-watch it. But it's pretty bad.

I'm also not quite sure if I would support a Silmarillion movie/show or not. An animated adaptation would be pretty neat, but the idea I had was taking individual stories--Beren and Luthien, the Fall of Gondolin, etc.--and adapting them into movies. That would be something very much worth watching.

Yesss I totally wish that trope would have been elaborated on!! To ease my thirst for that story, looking up fanart of them raising the two kiddos is very satisfying. I'm pretty sure that the fanart of the book is almost better than the book itself. Another thing that would have been nice to hear more about is Sauron's changing of sides. I want to know how and what happened instead of just "Melkor changed a Maiar's side", the end.

PHEW this is way too long but one more thing!! I want to change my name on here to something having to do with the Silm, how do I go about it and what should I change it to? 

submitted by Miriam, City of Gondolin
(March 26, 2024 - 12:28 pm)
submitted by SilverTOP
(March 25, 2024 - 8:44 am)

I have not read the Silm but happy Tolkien reading day!! Ok, a bit ironic coming from me cuz the only Tolkien book I ever read was the Hobbit and I really like it... but then again I was in 2nd/3rd grade maybe I'll try it again sometime I remember a dragon of some sort? So that might be cool :) But also like a tiny hole you have to squeeze through to get to the dragon? And little people singing about doing the pots and dishes?... ok sorry done interrupting! :)

submitted by Tolkien Reading Day!, age FeiyaDNDIY, CelineBurning Bright
(March 25, 2024 - 9:52 pm)

Don't worry about interrupting--happy Tolkien reading day to you too! The Hobbit is a spectacular book. Definitely consider reading it again.

aaand yes this is a day late. *slams head into desk* 

submitted by Miriam, age of ages, Jibbers says nekom
(March 26, 2024 - 12:48 pm)

ooh I've read some of the Silmarillion!!! When I was younger I read the chapter "Of Beren and Luthien," because my dad recommended it to me, and I really want to read some more of the actual book - though now I'm wondering, would I have to read the Lord of the Rings first? The only Tolkien book I've read is The Hobbit, and I don't want to run into any spoilers XD I did enjoy The Hobbit - its style seems really different from the Silmarillion, as it has more of a British-writer-talking-to-children tone, but it was still interesting. Although it seemed to me like Gandalf was a slightly weak character? He supposedly has super-powerful magic, but it never seemed to show up when the characters really needed it... I did like the character of Elrond, though. I don't know why, but the whole of the characters' stay at his house just felt really peaceful and more beautiful than the other events of Bilbo's journey. 

Anyway, this is more Hobbit-oriented than Silm-oriented, sorry :/

What's your favorite aspect of Tolkien's worldbuilding? For me it's the names and words - they have a magical cadence to them, and they seem so authentic, like names that you would come across if you were studying Scandinavian history or something. It's also amazing how detailed the world is - I'm perpetually in awe.

submitted by Poinsettia
(March 27, 2024 - 9:38 pm)

I mean... I haven't read all of the main trilogy yet (though I mean to someday). I don't think it's really possible to be spoiled by the Silmarillion. In fact, it enhances your reading of LotR even more, because you get the lore references! For example, one of the Valar (they're like gods/super-powerful angels) is Varda. Near the beginning of Fellowship of the Ring, there are some elves who are singing a song about her, using her other names, "Elbereth" and "Gilthoniel". I think that's just so neat.

The Hobbit is amazing. The character-building of Bilbo is spectacular. Bilbo is way better than Frodo, Frodo is kinda lame tbh. And if you liked Elrond, I definitely reccommend the Silm then. Honestly, I'd recommend the Silm even if you didn't like LotR at all. It's amazing, definitely try to read it at some point in your life.

Favorite part of worldbuilding... that award either goes to the mythology (I love the blur between legend and history) or the languages (duh). My family always says I should be a linguist, because I pick up languages so fast and I love all the science behind it. Speaking of, I am most definitely learning to speak Elvish, but I dunno if I should learn Quenya or Sindarin. I know how to say farewell (namarie) and a couple other things, but I want to learn more. MUST. ABSORB. ALL. LANGUAGE. *evil laughter*

submitted by Miriam, age of ages, temporary name
(March 28, 2024 - 3:44 pm)

Yes. It always inspired me how in-depth Tolkien was, with his fifteen something almost developed languages and geography, and incredible characters.

 

submitted by Glorfindel, age 1000+, Gondolin
(April 11, 2024 - 7:16 pm)
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(March 31, 2024 - 7:06 pm)
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(April 10, 2024 - 9:39 am)
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(April 25, 2024 - 2:27 pm)