Chosen Ones,I debated

Chatterbox: Inkwell

Chosen Ones,I debated

Chosen Ones,
I debated for a while over whether to put this here or in BaB, but I decided that since the reason I need to know is for NaNoWriMo, it would go best here. So:
My novel this year is called The Compleat Idiot's Guide to Being the Chosen One. If you're on NaNo, you may have read my synopsis. If not, I'll just say that it's me making fun of fantasy clichés, especially Chosen Ones.
And from there to the point of this thread: I need your opinions on Chosen Ones. Which ones do you love? Which ones do you like? Which ones do you hate? Which ones make you want to strangle them? I want /reasons/ for your opinions, too. Please go into detail. Ranting is encouraged; likewise verbosity. If you talk about a particular Chosen One, please give the book and author from whence they come.
Important: This is not just for Chosen Ones you hate. I want to hear about the good ones too.
I reserve the right to use things you say in my novel.
And... go!

submitted by ZNZ, age 13, NaNoLand
(November 5, 2010 - 3:25 pm)

Eee! A place to procrastinate by ranting about one of my favourite subjects! Eee!

((NaNo '09 Chosen Ones will probably be included in this because I'm an egotist.)) 

Generically speaking first, and then specific examples.  

Things I Like To See In Chosen Ones

-WELL DEVELOPED AND CONSISTENT PERSONALITIES. If nothing else then at the very least discernable personalities that aren't just BLAH CHOSEN ONE BLAH.

-A distinct lack of "rugged good looks" or "bishonen pretty boy" appearance, because 99% of the time they aren't handled well. 

-Actual difficulty and hard work involved in training, the lack of which is excusable only if the gods themselves grant Chosen Ones all necessary abilities, and even then just barely.

-No whining, whinging, and minimal wangst. No excuses.

-An obvious effort on the part of the writer to avoid or at least lampshade moral dissonance. Nothing kills a story's willing suspension of disbelief faster than no one calling out the hero on his sociopathy *cougheragoncough*

-Flaws, which go hand in hand with the personality point above.

-Common sense and at least a minimum of planning on the part of the writer, so that the Chosen One's being Chosen makes a modicum of sense.

Things I Loathe In Chosen Ones

-Sueish tendencies, of any kind. This includes but is not limited to: Extreme good looks, easy training, overpowered abilities (unless being overpowered is an integral part of being Chosen and this is spelled out in the narrative before such abilities actually appear), instant friends, moral dissonance, ridiculous amounts of charisma, etc.

Addendum: If the sue is well written and given an actual personality, it is excusable. Because the character is a Chosen One they are the only character archetype that I consider to have a Sue pass-- even if it is a highly conditional one. 

-Whining, whinging, and wangst. The three W's, which I hate so much I'm listing them twice. 

Chosen Ones That I Like 

-Harry Potter, although this one's a bit complicated. See, he's a very well developed character, and not much of a Sue. However, anyone who's read any of my HP rants knows how deep my loathing for him actually runs, but as a character and more specifically as a Chosen One he's one of the best. Although in some adaptions-- AVPM comes to mind-- I like him quite a lot. 

-Richard (Legend of the Seeker). He's an example of a Sue!Chosen One, but he's very well handled nonetheless. See, his actor is, uh, extremely good looking, he has a Magical Sword™ that makes up for his increasingly formidable fighting skills, and he is liked by everyone who isn't on the side of the villain(s). But he's also well written, and like Harry he has a definite personality that has both its good points and its flaws.

-Mort (TNÖ's NaNo of DOOM 2009). Yes, yes, I know. And he wasn't even officially a Chosen One, having received all of the responsibilities with none of the benefits (i.e. godlike powers and nigh invincibility). Admittedly, his personality was anything but consistent (because I fail at characterization), but I like him anyway.

-Brutha (Small Gods). Kind of a duh because Sir Terry Pratchett is an already ridiculously talented writer without adding in the fact that characterization is his strong suit. Anyway, Brutha's about as nontypical as one could get as far as Chosen Ones go, to the point that at the end he convinces his god (and chooser) not to smite everyone after regaining all his belief and power. And then topping that crowner by helping Vorbis-- terrifying Evil!Vetinari Vorbis-- to cross the desert at the very very end. He's just an awesome guy, but about as far from a Sue as you could get. Besides, he basically forced Om to become the first honestly caring god on the Disc. And since you know Discworld you know how big an accomplishment that is.

-Aang (Avatar). I like every single major character in the show, except Ozai and Long Feng. (That is an accomplishment in and of itself, making the only characters I don't have any sympathy for at all be the two of the worst villains of the show). Aang, despite being the protagonists, is one of my favourite characters, because he's portrayed realistically for being in that situation. I can't rave enough about how believable his personality is or how well the writers showed his evolution from goofy kid to formidable and almost deified warrior (and they evolve their characterization that well with every single major character except maybe Ty Lee who is too... fluffy to really change much. I love her anyway though). In a flurping animated kid's show. This is the sort of thing that will end the animation age ghetto, you mark my words.

-DG (Tin Man) Alright, she's a bit of a sue, but she's developed well and the dialogue more than makes up for the less-then-brilliant characterization. And she's nowhere near as awesome as Azkadellia. But that's more a matter of Azkadellia maintaining a base level of awesome so high that other characters have trouble keeping up (Cain's really the only one who measures up, followed by Zero and Glitch, and then DG who about ties with Raw, and then Tutor/Toto).

Lobsang Ludd (Thief of Time) As if being the son of the personification of time wasn't enough, his interactions with Lu Tze and Susan cement his awesomeness. And of course, the fact that Lu Tze beats him in a fair fight after Lobsang realized his full potential as the new personification of time was a refreshing touch. 

Chosen Ones That I Despise

There aren't really a lot of these because if I find them I stop reading the book and then promptly forget about them. But the major one is 

-Eragon. Because he's the absolute epitome of the Marty Stu, moral dissonance-laden, magical warrior guy archetype.

(my mental canon of this story is much better: Galbatorix joins the Riders, only to realize that they're really just a militarized group who have banded together with the dragons to terrify the country into submission. Dismayed, he starts a rebellion and destroys the tyrants from the inside-- only to be vilified by the general public only a few years later because they block themselves from remembering all the harm the riders did (a la the way people think of elves in Lords and Ladies). Decades later, a terrorist group called the Varden appears, further smearing Galbatorix's name by blaming him for the genocide of the dragons-- which is true, but was a necessary step in stopping the riders' tyrannical regime. And then they start actively attacking his people, sometimes even trying to frame him for it (a la President Coin at the end of Mockingjay, blaming Snow for killing all those children) Galbatorix reacts like any sane leader would-- attempting to drive them away or destroy them before they through his country into anarchy. He knows they are hugely made up of rider-supporters, so he puts the three remaining dragon eggs under lock and key... And then suddenly the Varden have a champion: a young, talented boy who Galbatorix's network of spies almost immediately identify as a raging sociopath. And so on. I'll stop now before this eats the actual post...)

submitted by TNÖ, age 17, Deep Space
(November 5, 2010 - 10:05 pm)

*gives many cookies* Thank you so much! This will be enormously helpful. I actually copied & pasted part of it and put it in my Notes file so I can refer back to it.
Moral dissonance -- I'm assuming from context that that means there are different standards for the "heroes" than for the "villians"? Hang on, let me google search. *searches* *comes back* I was right! I do have something planned about that, something along the lines of, "You're the CO, so /of course/ you don't have to feel guilty for hurting people!" It's actually going to be an entry in the Compleat Idiot's Guide. [Admin: please don't change Compleat. It's an archaic spelling that I intended to use. Thank you! *gives cookies*] I love writing the bits for the Guide -- I can be as blunt as I want to be.
Also, my CO is a total failure at weapons. The mentor guy who's supposed to be teaching him is worse. This will probably lead to some interesting fight scenes, as the only one in the group who can fight worth anything is the elf girl. (Though the dwarf will kill orcs with his magical pen... what?)

 

My apologies, ZNZ. I just change the parent post back to your preferred spelling. Let me know if it needs to be changed elsewhere, too.

Admin

submitted by ZNZ, age 13, Who wants to kn
(November 6, 2010 - 4:46 pm)

SFTDP, but re: Eragon: What I thought was weird was the way he's all like, "No, I can't take energy/life force/whatever they call it from these bugs, plants, and small animals in order to do magic with because then they'll DIE!! And it makes me SICK when they die and I feel GUILTY and in PAIN!!!" and "It's WRONG to eat meat!!" but by the third book he's torturing people (Sloan) and killing hundreds of people and strangling that one, like, teenager (with his bare hands, mind) and bashing people's skulls in (that /was/ him, right?) and he doesn't feel any remorse at all and no one calls him out on it because it's supposedly the CO doing what he has to do. What. Is the MATTER with him? *deep breath* *calms down* *feels much better now*Your alternate version sounds good. Somebody ought to write that fanfiction (well, anti-fanfiction, or hatefiction, or whatever). Maybe we should start an RP. XDSBC says troo. He agrees with me. Yay!

submitted by ZNZ
(November 7, 2010 - 12:34 pm)

And that, my dear, is why Eragon is the poster boy for moral dissonance.

Mm, alternate Eragon RP would be fun. 

Ha, CAPTCH says YWP(v). I'm not the only one with NaNo on the brain. 

submitted by TNO, age 17, Deep Space
(November 8, 2010 - 12:12 am)

Topper. And heh, wonder where that comma came from. Now it looks like I'm talking to the Chosen Ones.

submitted by ZNZ
(November 6, 2010 - 9:34 am)

I have no idea what chosen ones are, but I do have a question. 

@ZNZ: What's your name on NaNo?  I don't think I have befriended you yet.  I'm AnimalsAre8D.

Spamboy says wmmy.  Yummy? Tummy? Why Me? Wummy?  Wimmy? Wommy? Wammy?  Wemmy?  

submitted by Charlotte, age 12, Hogwarts
(November 6, 2010 - 6:48 pm)

Re: Chosen One: You know, like Harry Potter or Percy Jackson. They are the Only Person who can Save the World from the Evil Villain, often because an Ancient Prophecy Said So. Re: Username: I'm ZNZ, same as here. But I think you're on the YWP, and I'm on the main site, being thirteen and all. So I don't think we can be buddies. DX I'd give you my younger bro's username, but he's five years younger than you and I don't think he wants girls for buddies. XD

submitted by ZNZ
(November 6, 2010 - 8:50 pm)

Yes, on YWP. :-( Yeah, you're probably right XD

submitted by Charlotte, age 12, Colorado
(November 7, 2010 - 9:00 pm)

My problem with chosen ones is that, when they are chosen, the author is practically saying,

"This character will live and is destined to win in their mission."

^a REAL suspense killer.

submitted by Dawnpaw
(November 11, 2010 - 8:31 am)

I know it! "This character is going to defeat the bad guy because the ancient prophecy says so." Which makes the reader say: "Oh. So now I know how it'll end."

JKR did that well by just saying, "One of these characters will kill the other." So you didn't know who. 

submitted by ZNZ
(November 12, 2010 - 4:58 pm)

Yeah... It was still fairly easy to guess, though.

submitted by Ima
(November 12, 2010 - 9:36 pm)

Well, in a way.  Like, the ending itself is pretty obvious... but the way JK Rowling gets there is very interesting, and something I never would of guessed. *spoiler alert* Horcruxes anyone?  Hallows?  I mean, she was able to take the Chosen One idea and add more depth and excitement, so it's not just, "Oh, here's a guy.  He's a Chosen One.  Yay!  He has amazing abilities and wins a fight over a bad guy.  The end."  She does so much more, and that's what makes HP so great.

 

Oh, and by the way, I love your synopsis ZNZ!  My view on Chosen One's sorta comes in the last paragraph.  I think they're good if they are people too, and have dilemnas and layers and good character development.  But other than that... ehh... no.  They are just too bleh (for lack of a better word) when done poorly.

~Leaf 

submitted by Leaf ♪☮♥, age 13, on a tree!
(November 19, 2010 - 1:40 am)

Thank you. I'm rather fond of it myself. XD Yours is good too!

submitted by ZNZ, age 13, Death's Domain
(November 19, 2010 - 5:05 pm)

Thanks!  I've been enjoying writing it... and even though I'll be at 40k tomorrow, I haven't even gotten to forming the string quartet (for those who don't know my synopsis, it's about completely different high schoolers forming a string quartet and entering a chamber music competition), let alone character development!  *headdesk*  Oh well.  I'll continue writing it, and do some MAJOR editing of my rambling paragraphs later. :)  But the great thing is that I can totally relate to my characters.  I've gone to a chamber music camp two years in a row, I'm in an orchestra, I play violin and piano, and I go to a school that is 7-12 so I get a taste of high school.  It's really nice to not have to worry about making things up so I can focus on the details, especially since this is my first NaNo.

 ~Leaf 

submitted by Leaf ♪☮♥, age 13, on a tree!
(November 20, 2010 - 1:40 am)

I know what you mean by the whole 'suspense killer' thing. To make a good prophecy you should probably do it like have two or three characters that could be the 'chosen one' in the prophecy, and don't let the reader find out which one it is until the end. That helps the suspense killer problem. I think that is the best answer. But if anyone else has a better option, please post it.

(JKR kinda did what I just said. In like the 5th book at the end Harry finds out that either he or Neville could have been the chosen one. If she had followed that through to the very end it would have been better. But I still think she did an awsome job with Harry Potter.)

submitted by AnnaJay
(November 13, 2010 - 4:15 pm)